12:00 (12:30 with the delay in video and audio): Court is back in session.
Defense counsel Morris Anyah continues cross-examination of witness TF1-516:
Def: I was asking about the circumstances under which you departed from Liberia. You said it was usual for you to be in Sierra Leone and Liberia, so he did not ask you why you were in Pendembu. After you have left Liberia, you were still on good terms with Yeaten?
Def: Let’s look at what you told the prosecution about your departure from Liberia. [references document] “At this time the witness was concerned about his security. At this time there was also talk of disarmament in Sierra Leone. Yeaten told the witness not to be by the radio as before. Yeaten had witness contact Sesay. There was no response from Elevation. Witness felt insecure. Took helicopter to Vahun and slipped across the border to Pendembu. Did this without Yeaten’s consent.” It says you felt insecure, and it was this sequence of events you desribed?
Def; It was also a time one Sierra Leonean was suspected of communicating with LURD?
Wit: Yes, and it was alleged that Kamajors were fighting alongside LURD.
Def: You see where it says that witness “slipped” across the border?
Wit: I did not use that word.
Def: Does that word suggest that you sneaked into Sierra Leone and were afraid to be caught?
Wit: Yes, I thought it wise. Because I felt my security was shaky. I’d heard about disarmament.
Def: Now you’re in Pendembu. You said you called Yeaten. It says here you did this without Yeaten’s knowledge or consent. Does that mean you were running from Yeaten?
Wit: I thought it wise not to be in that area any more.
Def: I’m putting to you that you telling us about calling Yeaten from Pendembu – you were lying about that.
Wit: I was not lying.
Def: Is it your evidence that Yeaten and you continued to have conversations after you left Liberia?
Def: You were not concerned that Yeaten could harm you after you sneaked out of Liberia?
Wit: After the accusation?
Def: What accusation?
Wit: That they heard a Sierra Leonean voice talking with the Kamajors and LURD.
Judge Sebutinde: What are you saying he’s lying about?
Def: About remaining on good terms with Yeaten and being called to collect condiments and salt in Vahun.
Judge Sebutinde: If you look carefully at the answer he gave, he was talking about things in the past, that it was usual for him to offer such condiments on his way back from Sierra Leone.
Def: I understood it to have been after he left.
Judge Sebutinde: No, he was talking about what was “usual”.
Def: It all started with the question about how he left Liberia [reads from transcript]. He says that even after he left, Yeaten offered him salt.
Judge Sebutinde: Clarify it.
Def: Where you said it was usual that you were in Sierra Leone in Liberia, and that he used to call you to collect condiments like Maggi and salt in Vahun – that period of time when he offered this, is that after November 2001?
Wit: That is not the time.
Def: When is the time?
Wit: In the rainy season of 2001 I used to go from Buedu to Liberia and back after the retreat from Foya. During this period he would call me to come and meet him in Vahun. After I left in November 2001, I did not come again.
Def: You still had communication with Yeaten?
Wit: Yes, even after disarmament.
Def: When was the last time you saw him?
Wit: Late 2001.
Def: When was the last time you spoke with Yeaten?
Wit: Late 2001.
Def: …was the last time you saw him.
Wit: Since leaving I have never seen him again.
Def: When did you last speak to him?
Wit: Late 2001, over a radio set.
Def: You were still in communication with him after you left?
Def: On friendly terms?
Wit: At this time there were no operational messages sent.
Def: Was there any dispute between you and him after you left without his consent?
Wit: What is the question?
Def: Sierra Leoneans were suspected of working with LURD, that you slipped across the border to Sierra Leone without Yeaten’s knowledge or consent. You spoke after that. Did he tell you he was upset you left without his consent?
Def: Did he ever ask why you left?
Def: Once you arrived in Pendembu, did you report to Sesay or any RUF commander?
Wit: Sesay was not there.
Def: Were you still an RUF radio operator?
Wit: Commander Eagle, something Karmoh.
Def; Did you have any belongings when you left Liberia?
Wit: I left my bag at Base One, and left my radio with Life.
Def: I forgot to ask you about one thing in Monrovia. You told us you had been in the vicinity of Whiteflower in a vehicle, but you’d never been in Whiteflower. Would you say Whiteflower is within a mile of Yeaten’s compound?
Wit: It’s not up to that distance. It’s shorter than even a quarter mile.
Def: And you never went to Whiteflower?
Wit: I never went inside the fence.
Def: You’re the same person that Yeaten took on a tour of the president’s farm in Gbarnga, allowed to take pictures there, rode on a helicopter many times, went to the Executive Mansion, but were never once in Whiteflower?
Def: Do you think Yeaten did not want you to go into Whiteflower?
Wit: It’s difficult to tell.
Def: At no time did you see Yeaten or any other high ranking Liberian dealing with diamonds, true?
Wit: Yeaten received Eddie Kanneh from Sierra Leone, and before his arrival a message came he was bringing diamonds. Indeed I then saw him at Yeaten’s residence afterwards.
Def: [references document] “Witness never saw Yeaten or very high ranking Liberians dealing with diamonds.”
Wit: I said I saw Kanneh at Yeaten’s compound, and before his arrival a message came he was traveling with diamonds.
Def; Did you see Kanneh with diamonds in Yeaten’s residence.
Wit: They went into Yeaten’s house. All I knew was about the message.
Def: Did you see diamonds?
Wit: I did not see it.
Def: Do you agree with this statement I just read to you: you never saw Yeaten or other high-ranking Liberians dealing with diamonds?
Wit: I was not present when diamonds were handed over to Yeaten.
Judge Sebutinde: Did you say these words to the investigators – what is written here?
Def: So they have it down wrong?
Wit: My explanation was…
Def: What is on that paper is an error if it is not what you told them, right?
Def: Let’s go down a few lines. “Witness not aware of any directives by Taylor or Yeaten regarding the Freetown invasion in 1999.” Was that right, or also an error?
Wit: Messages were not transmitted through the radio.
Def: The question is whether this is what you told them.
Wit: The way it is written: I explained that communications were on the satellite phone, and that then Bockarie would come on the radio to issue orders. There were not direct discussions on the radio. It was on the satellite phone, then Bockarie would give orders on the radio.
Def: Do you agree with that sentence?
Wit: On the radio. It is written here even, I think.
Def: Do you agree with that sentence, yes or no?
Def; Did the prosecution get it wrong?
Wit: The statement has to be completed. [reads further from investigator’s notes] It was on the satellite phone.
Judge Lussick: It’s about whether you were aware about any directives. Did you tell this to the prosecution or not?
Def: You told us about Dopoe Menkarzon, Zigzag Marzah and Jungle – that they frequently brought arms and ammunition from Liberia to Sierra Leone?
Def: You told the prosecution about Jungle in your first meeting?
Def: [reads from document] “Knew Menkarzon, Zigzag Marzah and Jungle – taking supplies to Sierra Leone.” [references another page] You see: “Daniel Tamba was a Liberian soldier in the ATU. Witness did not know Tamba by any other name.”
Wit: We have made that correction.
Def: Did you say that to the prosecution in July 2006.
Wit: I saw it written and said, “no, that is not what I said”. I said Tamba is Jungle.
Def: [references another page] You see where it’s written “‘Jungle Jim’ was another name for Col. Jungle.” They were the same person – that’s what you told them?
Def: [references another document] This is the notes from your last interview, here in The Hague at the end of March. “With regard to the references ‘Tamba’ and ‘Jungle’, witness stated that Tamba was Jungle and that Jungle was a different person than Jungle Jim.”
Wit: This statement is referring to another statement saying Jungle was a different person. I read in an earlier statement that they were two different names.
Def: This is saying that last month you told them two things: that Tamba is Jungle, and that Jungle and Jungle Jim are two different persons.
Wit: They’re referring to clarifications in a particular statement.
Def: Of all the three of those people: Menkarzon, Jungle and Zigzag Marzah, you had known Jungle for some time.
Judge Sebutinde: If you look carefully at that paragraph, the witness may have a point. There’s a whole point in parentheses. It then says the witness said that all of that was incorrect.
Def: My point is that it was only in the last interview that this correction is being made.
Judge Sebutinde: I thought you were trying to show he’s said different things over time.
Def: As well…I see your point. I still let the record speak for itself about whether he knew the alias of Daniel Tamba.
Def: Mr. witness, of the three, who did you know the longest?
Wit: Dopoe Menkarzon.
Def: Then Jungle – better than you knew Zigzag Marzah?
Def: How is it that until March in 2008 you weren’t telling the prosecution that Tamba was Jungle?
Wit: I don’t know.
Def: Have you been given any money for expenses by the prosecution?
Wit: Ask again?
Def: [references document, requests to display document on the overhead projector]
Pros: Prosecution does not object to the document being publicly displayed.
Def: This document contains records of payments made to you by the prosecution from July 2006 until the present time. We’ve discussed the first one before. You said there was an extra 40,000 Leones given to you in addition to 130,000 Leones?
Wit: For transport, yes.
Def: Let’s go to the second. It says on September 20, 2006, you were given 20,000 Leones for lost wages and meal. You remember being given that money?
Wit: I recall.
Def: [references list of interview dates] Were you interviewed on that date, September 20, 2006?
Wit: I don’t see September 20.
Def: What were you doing for the prosecution on that day if there’s no record of an interview?
Wit: At some point I was given documents to go through and make corrections.
Def: On the date in question, you met with them in Freetown?
Wit: I cannot recall the dates. I was not taking notes of those dates.
Judge Doherty: There’s ambiguity in the answer. He says he was given documents. Was he at the court or maybe he could have been at home?
Wit: I made corrections right in the office.
Def: So on September 20, 2006, were you at the Special Court on Jomo Kenyatta Road in Freetown?
Wit: I can’t remember the exact dates of the meetings.
Def: But you remember they gave you money?
Wit: Each time I came, they gave me money.
Def: What kind of work were you doing in September 2006?
Wit: I was not employed, but I used to work on my farm. If I’m taken away from that or any other work, they had to compensate me for that.
Def: [references another line of the schedule of payments] On 18 Jan 2007 you were given 20,000 Leones? You see that?
Def: Were you given that sum on the day in question, a day you met with them?
Wit: Before coming to this place, the team from the Special Court used to come to Kailahun, they would give me money for taking my time.
Def: Did they give you 20,000 Leones on that day?
Wit: I can’t remember those dates and the amounts.
Def: Does it sound about right?
Wit: I was not keeping records of dates or amounts.
Def: [references another line] Jan 27, 2007: For transport, lost wages and a meal: 45,000 Leones. Do you recall receiving that amount on that date?
Wit: I’ve said they gave me money for these things when I met them.
Def; That was a Saturday and you met them the day before…I withdraw that…You did not meet with them around that time, according to the records. Did you meet with them then?
Wit: I can’t remember.
Def: [references next page] Entries 5-8: All pertaining to dates on which we have no records of interviews with the Office of the Prosecutor. Do you recall meeting with them on April 16?
Wit: I can’t give exact dates. I was not taking records of the dates.
Def: I see it says it was for a passport photo. Do you remember that date?
Wit: I can’t remember the date. I remember someone coming about the passports. I met a photographer and got two cards.
Def: Monday, April 16: They paid you that day for having missed work. 10,000 Leones?
Wit: I cannot remember.
Def: April 20, 2007: affidavit and birth certificate?
Wit: My birth certificate had to be reproduced. I was not given money for that.
Def: June 1, 2007: Lost wages: 10,000 Leones. Did you receive that money from them that day?
Def: Why? There’s no record of an interview that day. Why are they then paying you money?
Wit: Most of the times they met me, they asked me questions and I explained. Then they gave me money to travel back home.
Judge Doherty: The question is whether you missed work that date, because there’s no record of an interview.
Wit: Every time they met me…
Judge Doherty: Answer the question.
Def: You told us you recall being given 10,000 Leones on June 1, 2007, right?
Wit: I have said over and again that I can’t remember those dates exactly.
Judge Sebutinde: Mr. Anyah, do not misrepresent what the witness said. That is not what he said.
Def: [reads from transcript] “Q: June 1, 10,000 Leones. Did you receive 10,000 Leones on June 1st? A: Yes.”
Judge Sebutinde: I beg your pardon. That is what the witness said.
Def: Did you miss work on June 1, 2007?
Def: You missed work for the entire day?
Def: Where did you meet?
Wit: I think in Kailahun.
Def: [references next page] Four entries of amounts paid to you on which we have no records of them meeting with you. It says 10,000 Leones for one day meal, in October 2007. Did you meet them on that day?
Wit: I really cannot remember.
Def: The next entry: it appears to say that you and your family traveled from Kailahun to Freetown. Does that jog your memory?
Wit: I’ve never moved with my family from one point to another during this period. I remember this day when they told me I had to spend ten days in Freetown. They gave me 70,000 Leones for my family during that time.
Def: I see now it says “family welfare”.
Def: October 4, 2007: Payment for meals, transportation and communication: 35,000 Leones. You received that?
Def: The last entry is for accommodation at a motel.
Wit: They didn’t give me money for that.
Def: They paid for the motel stay?
Def: The next page, these payments coincide with dates of interviews. Let’s look at entry 13. Were you paid 130,000 Leones: “Mobile phone and SIM card”?
Wit: I was not paid money. They gave me the phone itself.
Def: Nov 27, 2007: food for meals.
Wit: I can’t remember the dates, but they gave me money.
Def: Did you receive 80,000 Leones from the Office of the Prosecutor that day, Nov 28, 2007?
Wit: I did not receive the money, but they gave me a top-up card for 30,000 Leones.
Def: And they paid your other expenses – for transportation, or meals and accommodation?
Wit: I think the 50,000 was for transport.
Def: They were given to you the same day?
Wit: I was not given the physical amount.
Def: Do you recall being given 50,000 Leones for transportation?
Wit: They paid for me.
Def: Was that on November 28, 2007?
Wit: That is what I see written in front of me.
Def: Do you recall if it was Nov 28, 2007?
Wit: I’ve stated before, I don’t remember the exact dates.
Def: The same date, Nov. 28, 2007, where you clarified that the 50,000 Leones was for transportation, they gave you 120,000 Leones for lost wages during 12 days of prepping in Sierra Leone. Did they pay you that?
Def: Entries 18, 19, 20 were all in March 2008: 30,000 Leones for communication?
Wit: I was given a top-up scratch card three times, each with a thousand units. A hundred units is 3,000 Leones.
Def: Were you given 30,000?
Wit: I received the scratch card worth that much.
Def: [another date] transportation to Freetown: 53,000 Leones?
Wit: They paid, it wasn’t given to me.
Def: How much did they give you March 3, 2008?
Wit: Before traveling, I received a message I should receive 100,000 Leones in Kenema, but it was not possible. That money was then given to me in Freetown.
Def: [references another page] This has a total figure for the payments to you. I just recall that they gave some additional documents after these totals were arrived at. On March 19, 2008: Celtel top-up: 30,000 Leones, disbursed in cash. Were you given cash?
Wit: It was the top-up itself I was given.
Def: Why does it say here cash?
Judge Lussick: Maybe they paid cash for the top-up.
Def: Here it says March 21: 10,000 cash for meals. Were you given cash?
Wit: I was given food.
Def: They bought the food for you?
Def: In Freetown, to go to downtown Freetown and change Leones to dollars, is it fair to say that 1 dollar is 3,000 Leones?
Wit: I have not exchanged dollars for Leones.
Def: This total is 998,000 Leones. Does that sound about right?
Wit: If you calculated all the amounts from all the different times and your mathematics is good.
Def: To be fair, I said the amount given to you, but not all the money was given to you. Some of it they spent on your meals or transportation?
Def: But you don’t quarrel with this amount?
Wit: Why do I have to quarrel?
Def: [references another document] There’s another unit at the Special Court called the Witness and Victims Section. They also keep records of payments and expenses. These records say: “Witness first arrived October 4, 2007: received 432,000 as witness attendance allowance.” Have you received that amount since that time?
Wit: Apart from the receipts signed?
Judge Sebutinde: You need to make the distinction between the different payments.
Def: Yes. Separate from the payments we’ve just gone through, did you receive 432,000 Leones?
Wit: If you take them by three categories: for transportation on each of those dates, I think it would be 331,000.
Def: These records do not relate to the prosecution records we’ve already discussed. There’s another section in the court. Each time you attended the Special Court, did they pay you money?
Wit: For lost wages.
Def; From October last year to now, did the total you received in this category, witness attendance allowance, did I add up to 432,000?
Wit: I can’t recall.
Def: Does 331,000 sound right for transportation?
Wit: Have we accepted that the receipts they gave me are still what they are referring to here?
Def; Did they have you sign a receipt every single time they gave you money?
Def: Did anyone else give you money outside the prosecution?
Wit: There was another section called WVS.
Def: The records are from WVS. I want to find out how much they gave to you. Does it sound right that they’ve given you 331,000 Leones for transporation?
Def: For miscellaneous: 216,000 Leones?
Wit: I have not kept records.
Def: How about accommodation: 40,000 Leones on your behalf since October of last year?
Wit: Each time I came to Freetown, I was provided lodging accommodation by WVS.
Def: You see the total there: 1,019,000 Leones spent on your behalf by WVS. Does that sound about right?
Def: I have no further questions for the witness.
Judge Doherty: Does prosecution have questions for re-examination?
Prosecutor Mohamed Bangura: I do.
Judge Doherty: It is now time for the lunch break. But before we adjourn, I remind the parties that there is a swearing-in tomorrow and there are special sitting times. We will sit until 10:15, adjourn for the swearing-in, and recommence at 11:30.