Court resumes after a break for the witness to receive medical attention.
Court: We were told that you were taken to the hospital and diagnosed. You were also taken to the hospital at the ICC.
Court: Is it correct?
Court: When I say hospital, I mean a medical facility.
Wit: No, when I complained, they said I would be on stand-by. The doctor said it was weekend. They said they would send medicine.
Court:; This morning you were seen by the examiner here?
Wit: Only this morning.
Courtroom administrator states that the Record should reflect that the witness had tests run. He had his blood taken. He was not shown the results. This blood work could only be done in a hospital. They were consulted by the medical line. This is the standard in the Netherlands. He was told what was wrong with him. He has confirmed in Court that he had tests run.
Court: Yes, he referred to them earlier.
Pro: We want to confirm what has happened so this does not go to his credibility.
Pro: You told the Court you went for blood tests and examination.
Pro: When was this?
Wit: That was the first week I went to the Netherlands. They took me for blood test; there was a problem. They took me for another one. I asked to see blood test myself. He took the blood test but I didn’t get to see these.
Pro: Can you give us the time?
Wit: It was this month. It was about two weeks back.
Court: You received no treatment this weekend?
Wit: Yes, the doctor brought medicine. They brought syrup for the cough. This is what I have been taking.
(Technical difficulties with the live feed)
Wit: I was taken to the nurse here.
Pro: Going back to the last answer.
Pro: On line 17 of page 24 of the transcript. Witness, who captured SLA?
Wit: It was the troops that I was with.
Pro: You refer to a mix of SLA and RUF. Who was it?
Pro: Was it your own group?
Wit: Wes, it was a mix of SLA and RUF.
Court: Did you capture one of your own?
Wit:No. Part of Executive Outcome that was captured.
Pro: You confirmed they brought South Africans, who is the “they”?
Wit: According to the SLA, they were the surrendered men who settled with Executive Outcome –they confirmed the troops were heading to this area.
Pro: Who organized this?
Wit: The SLA and the Executive Outcome. They were guarding this area.
Pro: You said that the SLAs were with the government, which government?
Wit: This was the government of the Sierra Leone party at this time.
Pro: At the time the SLA was being burnt, were you present?
Wit: Yes, I was standing there looking.
Pro: When you say “he had nothing good to tell us”, what do you mean?
Wit: Gullit was looking for information, he did not have it. Gullit saw it as a betrayal and said this man should die.
Pro: What do you mean by this?
Wit: The group that was AFRC and RUF did not want our group to exist.
Pro: Who is “they” that you refer to?
Wit: These troops, they joined the government and moved to the bush.
Pro: You refer to Executive Outcome; can you explain this group?
Wit: The group brought by the government and they were guarding the hydro-electric area.
Pro: How do you recall this?
Wit: They were brought by the NPRC regime. They were brought to fight. They had the support of the government.
Pro: How do you know they were Executive Outcome ?
Wit: We knew that they had a base there. Also, according to the soldier that was captured, he confessed they had come together.
Pro: When the soldier was tied and set on fire, what were you doing?
Wit: Well, I never had any objection. It was an order from the Commander, Alex Brima.
Pro: Did you tie him up and set him on fire?
Wit: No, I was standing there.
Pro: What did you see?
Wit: From what I saw, he was screaming and shouting.
Pro: Did he survive?
Wit: He burned to death. We were there until he burned to death.
Pro: What happened next?
Wit: After that we prepared for another advance to the North. He arrived at Kamagbengbe.
Pro: Is that the name of the village?
Pro: Did anything happen on the way to Kamagbengbe.
Wit: The only thing was we were able to capture Kamagbengbe. After capturing Kamagbengbe the troops stopped. Gullit called the commanders and the supervisors and the deputy chief in charge was present — 552. He said we are close to the highway so it would be better for the troops to use a two-way attack. He would use Kamabai.
Pro: Witness, where is Kamabai?
Wit: In the Bombali district.
Pro: Where is Karina?
Wit: Also in Bombali district.
Pro: Please Continue.
Wit: The Commanders raised concern. If troops move to Kamabai, we would be divided. It would be better for us to use Karina. Gullit said, since Karina is a strategic point, we should go and do a big demonstration there. Through the demonstration, the international community and government would know we existed. We would burn Karina down, amputate the people. We could capture people. After Gullit said this, we advanced to Karina.
Pro: You stated that Gullit said Karina was a strategic point, do you know why he said this?
Wit: Yes, according to him Karina is the mandingo area (sp). The formed president was from that area. If we hit here, we would be recognized by the international community and the government.
Pro: You mentioned that one goal was to capture able body civilians. Did he say anything else about civilians?
Wit: He said we should cpature them, the able body ones. The unfit ones should not join us. We were told they should die.
Pro: Witness, do you recall if you were told how they should die?
Wit: We had barrels, and we were told we should shoot them to death.
Pro: What happened after this meeting?
Wit: After the meeting, we had to organize. That was the time we meet the troops — the RUF and SLA. We decided that we had to move to attack Karina.
Pro: Witness, you were referring to the advancement of troops and said that Company A and Company D took the lead. On this occasion, do you recall who was taking the lead?
Wit: D company took the lead. Tito too was leading. The brigade stopped and they took some men from B and C company. We had information that there was a military post there.
Pro: What was your role?
Wit: I joined the advance team. I was together with Bazzy.
Pro: What happened when the troops advanced to Karina?
Wit: They were surprised. We did not meet a military check point or have any military pressure. We attacked.
Pro: What happened when troops arrived?
Wit: First thing, I was with Bazzy. We went into a house filled with 6-7 women. They were all crying. They said we should execute them. Someone else said no. So, we closed the doors and set them on fire. We set it on fire.
Pro: Why were they not captured?
Wit: We had orders from above. We must do a demonstration. So, unless we have sympathy and act on this, we must kill otherwise.
Pro: What were the ages of these girls?
Wit: The ones I saw were 8-15 years old. There were about 6 in there.
Pro: Witness, would you say that all 6 were young?
Wit: All young.
Pro: How many in total were there?
Wit: About 6 in the place.
Pro: Witness, how many of these girls were in the age group of 6-15?
Wit: Well, I did not ask them. I am unable to tell. But if you look at their faces and heights, you would know they are young girls.
Pro: When you entered Karina, can you estimate the number of civilians that were there?
Wit: The civilians were many. According to the ones we captured, most civilians from Koindu came there. Most civilians came from other areas to Karina to gain safety. This is according to the people we captured.
Pro: What do you mean by safe place?
Wit: We had not centered our operations in the North. It was safe for them in this area. This was the first advance in that direction. Until then it was safe for them.
Pro: What else happened in Karina?
Wit: Several things that I saw with my one eyes.
Pro: Witness can you explain what happened?
Wit: In Karina, when I left I met with Gullit, he was standing by the mosque. They were speaking and he told them they were lying. He took put a pistol and shot at about 11 of them. Next thing I saw was a lot of burning and looting. What I also saw was that kids taken from mothers were sent into houses that were set a blaze. Chambu Bango (sp?) was made first commander as the advance was going on. People were also being amputated.
Pro: What do you mean children were taken from their parents?
Wit: Most parents would strap kids on their back. They were sent into the blazing fire.
Pro: What did they do with them?
Wit: Houses were being burnt. Troops were setting houses ablaze, shooting people, and taking children from the backs of their parents.
Court: What do you mean by “sent”?
Wit: Taken from their mothers back and thrown into fire.
Pro: What happened to the kids?
Wit: My God. They were burnt to death. The houses were burning down.
Court: Can you clarify that there was an individual with Savage.
Pro: You said you saw an individual who was with Savage. Can you be more specific?
Wit: Issa Sesay was with Savage. He was a task force commander. He took Savage’s name — Chambu Bango.
Court: Was Savage known as Chambu Bango or was this man?
Pro: From what I understand it was Savage’s nickname, he took it.
Wit: It was Savage’s name. Sesay took the name that was originally Savage’s name. So we called him was Chambu Bango.
Court: The question I asked has not been answered.
Pro: Witness, the Record is not clear. Can you start there?
Wit: Issa Sesay who took the name Chambu Bango had a machete and took them. Atto also had a machete.
Pro: What were they doing?
Wit: These peple were so busy amputating people (unclear rest of the response).
Pro: You said Moneymilk — can you spell.
Wit: This is a popular name. Moneymilk.
Pro: Witness, can you also spell Arther?
Wit: Captain Atto – he was the company commander — Arther.
Pro: Do you recall the number of amputees?
Wit: I cannot recall. The population was many.
Pro: The incident took place in the North. How do you know about it?
Wit: When I was advancing, I saw him talking to people in front of the mosque.
Pro: Was Gullit talking to a particular person or just people?
Wit: The people leading the group, those were the people who he talked to.
Pro: Do you recall who was talking to them?
Wit: Gullit was talking to him and said he was lying. For that reason, he would kill him.
Pro: You said there were 11 people killed — who were they?
Defense: I heard it to be outside the mosque, not inside of the mosque.
Pro: Can you clarify the mosque incident?
Wit: The mosque was not a structure. It was something outside. You could stand in front of it. It was a round place. He was standing there and talking to them. After their response, he took out his pistol and started shooting at them.
Pro: You said houses were set on fire. Were they empty?
Wit: What I saw, people were running. They were just setting fire on the houses.
Pro: You said you would hear people screaming in the houses, what do you mean?
Wit: They were in houses. It was a surprise attack. They were inside and up in the morning prayering. it was early in the morning.
Pro: What happened to the people?
Wit: They all died inside the house. If they came out we woud kill them.
Pro: Did anything else happen there?
Wit: I also saw the fighters were raping women. They would take girls and rape them in the corner.
Pro: Who would rape the girls?
Wit: SLA and RUF troops that entered the village. The men would take women to the corner.
Pro: Where were the commanders?
Wit: Everybody was scattered about. They were in the town. They were busy. Tf commanders saw someone not preforming duties, they would get angry.
Pro: What duties are you referring to?
Wit: If you were not burning, you needed to be amputating people. If not amputating people, you needed to be shooting. If you were not doing that, you needed to be looting property. The commanders would then be happy with you then.
Pro: Witness you used the word “rape” — what do you mean by this?
Wit: It was an attack. During the attack, if you had not married the women, then you start having sex with her and if you start having sex with her you were raping her.
Pro: How many women were raped?
Wit: I do not recall. The place was highly populated and people did what they wanted to do.
Pro: Apart from rape, what happened to the women?
Wit: I also saw about 30 women stripped naked. I saw a surpervisory commander who was in charge of the women. Because of that, junior commanders said they should cover themselves. They looked out for their lappas to cover their bodies. From there, we also captured some civilians and children.
Pro: Can you spell lappa?
Wit: Lappa. It is clothing made of cotton to cover them.
Pro: Can you clarify?
Wit: It was clothing that women had to wrap and cover themselves.
Pro: Were there orders passed for civilians to be abducted?
Pro: Do you recall if that happened?
Pro: How many people were abducted?
Wit: There were about 30 women, some small boys and some adults. It was a large number. More than 50 civilians were captured.
Pro: You spoke about looting.
Pro: Who was looting?
Wit: Everybody participated in the looting. People took items, but mostly money and food items.
Pro: Who were the items taken from?
Wit: Those were taken from the people in Karina. Good things that were valuable and money were taken.
Pro: You mentioned small boys, do you recall the number of small boys?
Wit: Actually I can’t recall. There were many. They distributed them to the wives of commanders.
Pro: Witness, why did they do that?
Wit: They would give them boys to have them do small things for them. Then traing them to be SBUs.
Pro: Who trained them to be SBUs?
Wit: The commanders — SLA and RUF troops.
Pro: You said they were taken to be later trained for SBUs — were they ever later trained?
Wit: Yes. We had training. If you had a boy, you had orders to train him on weapons and guard duties.
Pro: Where did training take place?
Wit: When we got to Camp Russels (sp?), we trained there.
Pro: This attack, do you recall the timeframe when it took place?
Wit: This was around July 1998.
Pro: You said women were captured from Karina. They were being taken by Boyu (sp?)?
Wit: Yes. He took care of them until we handed them over to 55.
Pro: What was the name of the village?
Wit: I have forgotten. It is the village jsut after Karina.
Pro: How long were the troops in Karina?
Wit: Not long. After the demonstrations, we moved to another village. We formed a TB.
Pro: Can you clarify what TB means?
Wit: TB is a military term for temproary base. After some time, we would reorganize and move on.
Pro: Do you remember the place where this was set up?
Wit: The village after Karina. We were there for some time.
Pro: What happened next?
Wit: At that momenet, we settled there then brought our women to 55. Then they said if you need a wife, you come and sign. Junior commanders also came and took the women. They were shared among commanders that were interested.
Court: Counsel, can you ask the witness what the difference is between women and wife that he is referring to?
Pro: You have used word wife and women. Can you tell us if this means something different?
Wit: The young women, when brought to 55 — if you wanted one you could come and sign up. You would sign up for the women. The 55 then decided to hand over women to commanders. Everyone had one.
Pro: What does wife mean?
Wit: This women was responsible for cooking with him. She cooked and was the women who satisfied his needs in the jungle.
Pro: Did these women have a choice?
Wit: There was no choice making. They were captured people.
Pro: You said that the 55 told the men to come and sign up. You also said that they were to “make sure you protect that women”. What does that mean?
Wit: Protection meant that you shouldn’t allow her to escape. You should be among the troops. Anytime the women was needed, she must be present.
Pro: What do you mean by any time she is needed?
Wit: In case there was any complaint from anyone. The 55 would call the women. You were the commander. You must produce the women.
Pro: Witness you used word “mannyqueen”. What does that mena?
Wit: This was an area among the captured women that was chosen. If discipline was to be taken, the mannyqueen over saw the responsibility and disciplined the women.
Pro: What discipline was taken against women?
Wit: For example, if the man brought a compliant to the 55 and he suspected this woman was in love with another man, then discipline would be taken. If she refused to cook for the man or have sex, discipline would be taken against you.
(Technical difficulties in the live feed)
Pro: When did this happen?
Wit: For instance, when we settled in Camp Russels, those things would happen. If a women complained and she was found guilty, she was sent to a mannyqueen. She would stay in the box. They would give you lashes if you were found guilty. You would be kept there for a certain time.
Pro: Who is the “you” would be put into a box?
Wit: If a commander reported that the wife given to him had done something like fall in love with another man, and she was found guilty, she was reported.
Pro: Explain the “box”?
Wit: Welll, in the village where we were, it was the boxes used on farms, it was those where the rice was kept. That is where women were disciplined.
Pro: Can you recall instances where women were locked in boxes?
Wit: Yes, Bajehjeh kept a woman in the box. He complained about a woman to 55, suspected she was in love with someone else. 55 did an investigation and found her guilty. She was put into the box.
Defense would like clarification about where the line of questioning went. There are different places referred to and Counsel said she would be revisiting a location. It is difficult to determine where we are now.
Prosecution talks about Camp Russels for a moment and stated that she will go back to the location where we left off.
Pro: You were about to clarify the name before Bejehjeh.
Wit: It was Junior Bejehjeh.
Pro: Is there another Bejehjeh?
Wit: Med Bejehjeh came and joined us later.
Pro: Witness you stated ealier that you have witnessed where woman was taken to the box, how long was she locked up for?
Wit: As far as I can recall, she spent two days in the box.
Pro: This took place in Camp Russels you said. What actions were taken like this outside of Camp Russels?
Wit: Only happened in Koudi town.
Pro: Do you recall when was the group in Camp Russels?
Wit: It was July-September 1998.
Prosecution continues to establish additional locations and the relevant timeframes that the troops were located in each place. It was difficult to hear Prosecution and unclear from her statement what the town names were.
Pro: You stated that you left and went to another village?
Wit: Yes, as we were based in a temporary base, we went to Mandaha.
Pro: Where is Mandaha?
Wit: In the Bombali District.
Pro: When did you reach Mandaha?
Wit: Same day we demonstrated in Karina. We rested here.
Pro: Did anything happen in Mandaha?
Wit: We rested and then we were attacked. We had an attack from the forces in the area.
Pro: Which forces were these?
Wit: Gbethis and Kamajos were involved.
Pro: Who were the Gbethis?
Wit: Government formed them to figth against us in the jungle.
Pro: Do you recall what happened?
Wit: In this atack, we repelled the Kamajos. We captured two of them. We brought them to Gullit. He ordered their execution. We executed them and we decapitated them. We displayed their heads in the village. The troops divided some of our men and during this time we lost Moneymilk and the radio communicator. A few of them ran away. We tried to trace these people. We did not see htem.
Pro: When you say we decapitated them, who is the “we”?
Wit: The troops — SLA and RUF troops. After we battled the Gbethis and Kamajos we captured them.
Pro: Witness, did you participate?
Wit: No but I was present.
Pro: Do you recall why the heads were displayed?
Wit: These men came and attacked us. Some of our men were running away. So we wanted to create fear.
Pro: Did anything else happen after this?
Wit: After that, Gullit asked us to organize a patrol to go and look for these people who had escaped. We did not see them. When we did not see them, we decided to move ahead.
Pro: Who were the people that ran away?
Wit: Moneymilk, Ghetto boy (sp?), radio communication all ran away.
Prosecution is trying to clarify something, but is not speaking into the microphone so it is unclear what she is saying. Kurta is referred to.
Court: Yes, I see radio communication. Page 65 and line 22. Please proceed.
Pro: Where did your troops move after this?
Wit: Well, our troops moved towards Gbendene.
Pro: Where is Gbendene?
Wit: In the Bombali district.
Pro: Did anything happen on the way?
Wit: Gullit captured some civilians. So Gullit called one of our men. I have forgotten his aka (later recalled it was “Freaky”). He said you need to amputate three of them. He made him write a note. It was Gullit who gave this order. Gullit said, after they are captured, they should amputate them. When he wrote the letter, he said this was a warning that the forces were on their way. If they don’t support us, they will suffer the same way. They did that and they hung people. Later, we captured Bgendendu.
Pro: This warning was for people of, which place?
Wit: It was for people of Makeni. The forces were in their mist. The warning was to tell them if they support ECOMOG, they will face the same action. That is what they will face. Witness recalled the aka.. Freaky.
Pro: Can you clarify what you meant when you said that the ampuation was a warning?
Wit: This was a warning and what Gullit ordered for them to write was meant to make them fearful.
Pro: The three civilians you mentioned, were they male or female?
Pro: Do you recall their ages?
Wit: They were adults, 20 and above.
Pro: What happened afterwards?
Wit: We advanced and captured Bumbuna (sp?)
Pro: what happened there?
Wit: We burned town and captured civilians.
Pro: Do you recall how many civilians you captured?
Wit: No, I don’t recall.
Pro: Do you remember the age group?
Wit: I know there were some young ones. I do not recall their ages now.
Pro: Was it only women?
Wit: I saw women.
Pro: What happened to the women?
Wit: We saw them and captured them.
Pro: Unclear — Prosecution is not speaking into mike so we cannot hear her.
Wit: The houses in Bumbuna (sp?) were burnt.
Pro: Do you recall who burnt the house?
Wit: The two forces — SLA and RUF.
Wit: We did. The SLA and RUF.
Pro: What were you looting?
Wit: Anything of value.
Pro: You stated earlier that then the troops moved to Foro Loko?
Pro: Where is Foro Loko?
Wit: In the Bombali district.
Pro: I will come back to the spelling.
Pro: Did anything happen in Foro Loko?
Wit: We captured two police officers. It was a cross-road and there were two stationed police officers. They had nothing good to tell us. They were supporting the government, so Gullit shot them to death.
Pro: What do you mean that “they had nothing good to tell us”?
Wit: Gullit put questions to them and they could not answer. They said they were just officers at the checkpoint and did not know anything. Gullit said this meant they don’t support us.
Translator — correction. Tito shot them.
Pro: What do you mean when you say “they had nothing good to tell us”?
Wit: Gullit questioned them. He wanted to know the position of the ECOMOG forces in the area. They said they don’t know anything about that. Gullit said they had nothing to tell us of importance and they therefore supported the government. So he told Tito to shoot them.
Pro: Were they armed?
Pro: Where did the troops go to next?
Wit: From Foro Loko we moved to Matinka.
Pro: What happened in Matinka?
Wit: Nothing we just rested here.
Pro: Where did you go to next?
Wit: To Matiti.
Pro: Where is Matiti?
Wit: We went to Mateboi.
Pro: Where is this?
Wit: In Bombali district.
Pro: Did anything happen on the way?
Wit: Only thing was there was an enemy threat at the rear. So Gullit called operation commander — Unclear and Junior Sherif. He told them we should organize troops to go back and see. To see if there was anyone following us. I was pointed to that direction. We went to Matiti and got to a village. We heard noice. We didn’t see civilians though. Gullit had ordered us to use force if we saw a threat, we should burn. Junior Sherif said we should burn the place.
Prosecution questions the Witness about the use of a password. There was no context to this discussion and Prosecution’s questions could not be heard on the live feed.
Pro: You said you burned some areas?
Wit: I said from Matiti he burned some areas. I said let’s go to the village. We were hearing some sounds in the village.
Pro: Do you recall the name?
Wit: I don’t recall.
Pro: Do you recall what happened next?
Wit: We made a counter-attack. The people ran away. We burnt down the village and retreated.
Pro: Do you recall what villages were burnt?
Wit: Like Matiti, we burnt it down. We burnt about three villages.
Pro: Do you recall why you burnt down these villages?
Wit: Since we had suspected some movement, we burnt the houses in the villages.
Pro: What happened after this?
Wit: The mission was accomplished and reported back to Gullit. There was no threat in the rear. Troops moved and we settled in Mateboi.
Pro: Do you recall what happened in Mateboi?
Wit: Gullit saw civilians and said he didn’t trust that they were civilians. Fullboma (aka Bulldoze). We left and went as far as Foro Loko. We came across people who were expecting our movement. They attacked. We burnt villages. Afterwards, we reported to Gullit and told him what occured.
Pro: Who was in charge?
Pro: You should that you went back and reported to Gullit — what happened?
Wit: We reported and they took us to Gullit. He was very pleased. If we knew it was an enemy position and we burnt it, then these enemies could not use it as a post.
Pro: Do you recall what did he say?
Wit: He said that we should go ahead. Captain Olamgba.
Pro: Who is Olamgba?
Wit: He was an SLA and he came with 55 to join us.
Pro: Who was Olamgba?
Wit: Well Olamgba was a tiny man. He knew the area. Gullit sent him to go and get a suitable place for our base. He went and said he saw a nice village surrounded by water. He said we should go and set up a base. We captured Resu (sp?)
Pro: You were talking earlier about women put in boxes. You referred to Camp Russels and now Resu. What is the difference?
Wit: It is the same place.
Court Where is this located?
Pro: Where is Resu?
Wit: Sanda area (sp?) and Bonbu (sp?) District.
Pro: Did anything happen when the troops arrived?
Wit: After the arrival, Gullit invited the company commanders including operation commander. Gullit said now that we came to Resu, it should be a no-go zone for civilians. No one should be in that area.
Pro: You mentioned this being a “no-go area” — can you explain?
Wit: Gullit said we should not bring in civilians into the camp. We should destroy and execute anyone in that area. Called it Operation Jar’jar.
Pro: Is this a word?
Wit: In the jungle, you go and loot any place, you must burn it down.
Spelt as Jar’jar
Pro: What happened after this?
Wit: They distributed the battalions. They were carrying on the orders. Any company sent, you must carry out the orders. Make sure its free of civilians and burn it down.
Pro: Who carried on these orders?
Wit: Company commanders and their soldiers. I went there to reinforce the area. The area called Batmise.
Pro: Do you recall where the people were distributed?
Wit: B company was at the headquarters, C company was in the ______ area, A company was going toward another town, B company was at Batmise.
Pro: Do you recall who was in control of Company A?
Wit: Captain Tito.
Pro: Do you recall who was in control of Company B?
Pro: Do you recall who was in control of Company C?
Pro: Do you recall who was in control of Company D?
Wit: General Johnson, he was heading the company.
Pro: You mentioned Company D — who was Johnson reporting to?
Wit: Under supervison of the operation commander. Bazzy also.
Pro: You should you were deployed to Batmise. Did anything happen there?
Wit: Yes, there was an incident. There was one time there was an ambush. We took them to the commander. Commander said, since Gullit ordered no citizen could come to the area, he executed all 6 of men. He took grass and put it on them and set it ablaze.
Pro: Who excuted them?
Wit: Faibang (sp?) shot them.
Pro: Did anything else happen in Batmise?
Wit: I know they were patrolling too — they were part of the food finding patrol.
Wit: The combined troops. It was an order from the headquarters.
Pro: What was involved in food finding patrol?
Wit: We would go and search for food. We also go and look for things in that area. If we met civilians, we execute them. If we met them and supsect them, we shoot them. If we find anything valuable, we take it from teh civilians. When we caught civilians, we excuted them.
Pro: Why did you capture cilvians?
Wit: If the load was too much, we use cilvians to carry things. If they can’t carry the load we execute them.
Pro: How many food finding patrols were conducted?
Wit: Right up to the time we left that place, to around end of September – October, we had continuous food finding patrols.
Pro: You stated that civilians carried the loads — they were used to carry and then were killed. While troops were based in Camp Russel, can you estimate how many were killed?
Wit: No, but in my patrol there were killings. We were obeying the orders from Gullit.
Pro: How many patrols did you go on?
Wit: Several. During that time we went on patrols frequently.
Pro: Where to?
Wit: Timbo, Rakino, Royanka.
Pro: The food fingding patrols you were involved in, can you estimate the number of civilians taht were killed?
Wit: No. I just went on patrol. I don’t recall.
There was a delay while tapes were changed.