9:30 (10:00 with the delay in video and audio): Court is in session.Defense Counsel Morris Anyah continues his cross-examination of protected prosecution witness TF1-028:
Def: When we left off yesterday, I had mentioned the name Tito. We were trying to ascertain which group he came with the Col. Eddie Town. We established that you were at Col. Eddie Town with one group of fighters when a group called the Red Lions arrived?
Def: That group was commanded by Mohamed Bajehjeh?
Def: You said the next group that arrived was commanded by Tito?
Def: Was that group SLA or RUF?
Def: You said another group arrived headed by Saj Musa?
Def: RUF or SLA?
Def: In total, there are four groups, including the group you started out with in Karina? Four groups in Col. Eddie Town?
Def: I asked yesterday, whether in your first interview with the prosecution, you told them that Tito arrived with Saj Musa. Do you remember what you told the prosecution in January 2003 about whether Tito came separately or together with Saj Musa?
Def: Do you remember what you told the RUF trial about whether Tito arrived with Saj Musa or separately at Col. Eddie Town?
Wit: Tito came with his own group.
Def: Is that what you told the court in March 2006?
Def: That is a fact, born out by the transcripts, but you told the prosecution that they came together.
Def: [references document] These are notes from your Jan 2003 interview with the prosecution. You have referred to Col. Eddie Town by another name?
Wit: Yes. Tufayim.
Def: Do you know when the name became Col. Eddie Town?
Wit: When we were at Rosos, they called the place Tufayim.
Def: From what time onwards was it called Col. Eddie Town?
Wit: It was the time we came to the town.
Def: Was it ever referred to as Major Eddie Town?
Wit: I knew it as Eddie Town.
Def: [reads from notes] “Saj Musa and his group of soldiers, including one Tito (dead) met us at Tufayim.” Did you tell them that Tito was in Saj Musa’s group?
Def: Did you tell them they arrived at Col. Eddie Town, but separately?
Def: Of these four groups that arrived at Col. Eddie Town, who was the overall commander?
Wit: Saj Musa.
Def: The group headed by Med Bajehjeh, who you said was RUF, you said had 70 fighters?
Def: You told us it was a mixed group, some Liberians and some Sierra Leoneans from the Mende tribe. How many of the 70 were Liberians?
Wit: The 70 were Liberians. The 30, they had Mendes amongst them and the civilians they captured.
Def: All of the Sierra Leoneans were civilians?
Def: Amongst the fighters, how many were Liberians and how many were Sierra Leoneans?
Wit: The 30 were Sierra Leoneans and the 70 were all Liberians.
Def: But that brings the number to about 100. That’s the number of fighters, removing civilians?
Def: But yesterday you told us that the whole group was 100, of which 70 were fighters. You remember telling us that?
Def: Do you see there’s a difference?
Wit: I will explain. The reason why I said it was up to 100, those who were Mende boys mixed with the civilians – I did not know if they were soldiers, but they had guns.
Def: Some of the Mende people had guns?
Wit: Yes, and they were RUF.
Def: Were the total number of fighters 100 or 70?
Def: We’re speaking now about the Red Lion Group?
Wit: Yes. I said 70 because they asked me about the Liberians. If they had asked me about the total with guns, I would have said the number.
Def: How many Sierra Leoneans were commanded by Med Bajehjeh?
Wit: Out of the 30, the Mendes dominated among the civilians who were captured. All the Mende boys had guns.
Def: What is the total number of fighters who came to Col. Eddie Town with Med Bajehjeh?
Wit: 100 – the women and boys.
Def: Including civilians?
Wit: Yes, that was the total population Bajehjeh brought.
Def: This phrase “Red Lion group”, did you ever mention it to the prosecution in Jan 2003?
Wit: No. I did not talk about it. When someone comes to ask questions and you did not know the sort of person, you would be afraid to tell them everything.
Def: But you told them about the brutal killings of your relatives, and your capture, and all of the events until your escape in Makeni?
Def: How did it come to be that you didn’t mention the Red Lion battalion in your first interview?
Wit: The time the people came to me, I had some fear in me. I did not know them.
Def: Fear from whom?
Wit: I feared the RUF and the soldiers. I was in my village and I saw different people approach to ask questions, so I was afraid to tell them everything.
Def: They were not RUF or soldiers?
Wit: I did not know the difference at the time.
Def: You didn’t know the difference between RUF soldiers and people from the Office of the Prosecutor?
Wit: I don’t know them.
Def: But you were comfortable enough to mention the names of commanders to them?
Def: You also mentioned Superman and his group?
Def: But when it comes to the Red Lion battalion, you say you didn’t mention it because you were afraid?
Def: When you testified in the RUF trial and questions were asked about the Red Lion battalion, did you mention that they were Liberians?
Def: Are you sure you told the court they were Liberians?
Def: I’ve read through your testimony to the court on March 20, 2003, and there’s no reference to you saying they were Liberians. What do you say about that?
Wit: I said it.
Def: If it is not in the record of your testimony, that record would be incomplete?
Wit: Mine was complete because it was something I said.
Judge Sebutinde: You said 2003, did you mean 2006?
Def: Yes. Thank you.
Def: You told us yesterday that once this group made its way into Freetown – the whole group – that you stopped at Kissy Ferry Junction?
Def: You were asked if you knew what the Red Lion group did when you were at Ferry Junction and you said no?
Pros: The question was where they were, not what they did.
Def: I think that may be right, but I’ll read the transcript from yesterday. You were asked if you knew where the Red Lion group was when you entered Freetown. You said no – you did not know because they were all over the town. Do you recall saying that?
Def: Is it fair to say that you did not know what the Red Lion group did in Freetown in January 1999?
Wit: I wouldn’t know.
Def: You told the RUF court that when Saj Musa died, as far back as Benguema, you no longer saw the Red Lion battalion leader Med Bajehjeh?
Wit: I never said that because the groups were all mixed up.
Def: Did you tell the RUF court that you didn’t know where Med Bajehjeh was when you left Benguema?
Wit: I didn’t say that.
Def: [references transcript from RUF trial] “After Saj Musa, I did not see C.O. Med again.” Did you say that?
Def: How is it that they have you saying exactly that in the transcript I’ve just read.
Wit: He asked me whether the time we came to Benguema, whether I saw Med Bajehjeh. I told him the population was all mixed up. I didn’t know the difference between them. From there we all went to Freetown.
Def: To be fair, I’ll read the questions and answers leading up to this: You said C.O. Med followed the Saj Musa’s order to go to Freetown. You were then asked whether C.O. Med followed Gullit’s orders after Saj Musa’s death, and you said that after Saj Musa’s death, you did not see C.O. Med again.
Wit: When Saj Musa died I did not see C.O. Med.
Def: From that point onwards, is it fair to say you did not see him again throughout the invasion of Freetown?
Wit: I did not see C.O. Med, but I still saw the symbols on their heads – the rebel boys, RUF.
Def: But you did not see the commander, C.O. Med?
Wit: No, I did not see him.
Def: The group that captured you in Karina had amongst its commanders Five-Five, Gullit and Alabama, Eddie, Woyoh and Fasu Loku?
Def: Who was the commander in Karina?
Def: Did he stay commander of that group through your movements until Rosos?
Def: And it was only at Col. Eddie Town that Saj Musa took over command?
Def: After Saj Musa died, who took over command of this group?
Wit: I did not know the right leader, because we were all trying to head for Freetown.
Def: You told the RUF trial that Five-Five was commander of this group both before and after Saj Musa’s death?
Def: [reads from RUF trial transcript] You were asked if anyone became leader of the group after Saj Musa died. You said Five-Five did. You told them Five-Five became commander of the group after Saj Musa’s death?
Def: Why does the record say that?
Wit: It was Five-Five and Gullit who did things in common. I don’t know whether it was Five-Five or Gullit who led them, but it was the two of them together.
Def: But you told the court that Five-Five was the leader before Saj Musa’s arrival?
Def: It was only after Saj Musa’s death that you were no longer sure who was the commander?
Wit: I did not know the right person who replaced him.
Def: What I just read is incorrect?
Wit: It’s not correct.
Def: When Saj Musa arrived at Col. Eddie Town, there was a meeting held during which he and Five-Five spoke?
Def: Musa spoke about your approach to Freetown?
Def: He said what the purpose was?
Def: He said it was because the army had been disbanded and they were going to reinstate the army?
Def: Five-Five also spoke. He also said it was because the army had been disbanded?
Def: From Karina all the way to Col. Eddie Town, had you always been in the same group in which Gullit was?
Def: The same group as Five-Five?
Def: You were with that group all the way to Kissy Ferry Junction?
Def: You were with that group at Benguema when Saj Musa died?
Def: Have you heard the name Bomb Blast?
Def: Under what circumstances?
Wit: Bomb Blast, it was in Rosos that I heard that name and I saw him face to face.
Def: Was he a fighter or a civilian?
Wit: A fighter.
Def: To which group did he belong?
Def: Was he a commander or a soldier?
Wit: I used to see him with the commanders.
Def: Have you heard the name Hassan Papa Bangura?
Def: Do you know a man by the name of Ice T?
Def: Do you know his real name?
Def: When was the last time you saw him?
Wit: It was in Eddie Town.
Def: You last saw Ice T at Col. Eddie Town?
Def: When was the first time you saw Ice T?
Wti: At Eddie Town.
Def: You did not see him at Rosos?
Wit: I saw him in Rosos and then in Tufayim. From Tufayim I did not see him again.
Def: Have you heard the name Alimamy Bobson Sesay?
Def: Did you see Ice T at Kissy Ferry Junction?
Def: Did you see him at Benguema or Waterloo?
Def: To which group did he belong?
Wit: I saw him with Five-Five.
Def: Ice T was here to give evidence in April. You told us yesterday you were at Rosos for seven months?
Def: This fellow Ice T who came before this chamber said that he was also with Five-Five at Camp Rosos and said he was there for two and a half months, from August to October 1998. Do you still say you were there for seven months?
Def: You told us yesterday you were there for seven months?
Wit: If you say so, you are right. We did not complete the seven months.
Def: Do you agree with Ice T that it was only from August to October?
Def: You told us you went from Rosos to Col. Eddie Town?
Def: How much time did you spend there?
Wit: I can’t recall. We were there for a long time.
Def: From Col. Eddie Town, where did you go to?
Wit: To Port Loko Highway.
Def: Is there a place called Mange Bureh near Port Loko?
Def: Where did you go from Port Loko?
Wit: Four Mile.
Def: Four Mile?
Wit: Yes, it’s the name of a village.
Def: Have you heard of a place called Mamuseh?
Def: Is it near Lunsar?
Def: Did you go there after you left Col. Eddie Town?
Def: After Mamuseh, where did you go?
Wit: We went to a village.
Def: Do you know its name?
Def: Where is the next place you went where you remember the name?
Wit: I don’t remember the names. We just passed throught the villages and I didn’t remember the names.
Def: Is it fair to say that it was a long time ago and you don’t remember a lot about what happened?
Wit: I have recalled so many things that happened. The more I sit here, the more I recall.
Def: You remember the bad things that happened to you and your loved ones better than other things that happened?
Wit: I remember what happened to my family and the events that they stemmed from.
Def: you don’t remember where you went after Mamuseh?
Wit: I don’t remember the name of the village because we just slept there for the night.
Def: Do you know Mile 38?
Def: Have you heard the name Magbutunso?
Def: Did you go to Mile 38 on your way to Freetown?
Def: Do you know a place called Mamahmah?
Def: Did you go through there on the way to Freetown?
Wit: Yes, because it is on the main road.
Def: Are these questions jogging your memory?
Wit: Yes, Mamamah you are talking about, we went through there when leaving Freetown.
Def: Did you go there on the way to Freetown?
Def: Where did you go from there?
Wit: I don’t know the name.
Wit: I don’t know the place. We walked through some villages.
Def: Where did you go right before you reached Waterloo?
Wit: Through some villages.
Def: After Waterloo you went to Benguema?
Def: Will you confirm that after Col. Eddie Town, you did not see Ice T in all of these villages?
Def: Was Bomb Blast with you from Col. Eddie Town through Benguema?
Def: I want to ask you about Mandahar – the place you were taken shortly after you left Karina. You said you spent six days there?
Def: You told the RUF trial chamber you spent six days there?
Def: When you first met with the prosecution in Jan 2003 you said it was two days?
Def: Yesterday you told us about the death of your 24 year-old brother in Mandahar?
Def: How they thought he was trying to escape when he was fetching water – how he pleaded for his life and grabbed onto you and had to be pulled off. And that he was eventually killed?
Def: How was your brother killed?
Wit: Junta group.
Def: How did they kill him?
Wit: They all had machetes. As they were hacking him, I heard him screaming.
Def: Was this a blood brother of yours?
Def: Same father or mother?
Wit: Same father.
Def: You did not mention to the prosecution the first time anything about your brother being killed in Mandahar?
Wit: I told them.
Def: [references document] This is your interview of January 2003: “We entered Mandahar and spent two days there before it was attacked by an enemy faction…there were no civilians when we got there.” You said that?
Wit: Yes. At the time we entered Mandahar, there were no civilians. On the third day they killed my brother. I spoke about all of those things.
Def: On this day, I’m trying to ascertain whether you said anything about your brother being killed in Mandahar. Did you tell them?
Def: So if the interview notes don’t say anything about it, there are omissions in their records?
Wit: I explained it to them.
Def: When you testified in the RUF trial chamber, do you remember if you told them about the brutal killing of your brother at Mandahar?
Wit: I will listen.
Def: [reads from RUF trial transcript] “We spent six days at Mandahar…they fought at Mandahar…the combat men fought with another group.” That’s what you told them about Mandahar. No mention of your brother’s brutal killing. Do you agree this is what you told the trial chamber in March 2006?
Wit: I don’t agree.
Def: You say you did mention the killing to the trial?
Def: The transcript fails to mention it?
Def: Yesterday you told us something that happened to a 12 year-old at Mandahar?
Def: What happened to her.
Wit: She was raped.
Def: Was she related to you?
Wit: She was my sister’s daughter.
Def: Do you remember if mentioned this to the RUF trial chamber two years ago?
Def: This brother of yours who was killed in Mandahar – was he ever recruited to be a fighter?
Def: Did anyone ever attempt to train you to fight?
Def: Were any civilians captured at Karina and taken all the way to Freetown trained to be fighters?
Def: Men, women or both?
Wit: One man.
Def: How old was he?
Wit: 20 years old.
Def: Did he become a fighter?
Def: Why not?
Wit: While the training was going on, he was killed by a bomb.
Def: Of all the people taken from Karina, only one person was trained to be a fighter?
Def: I would like to request a brief closed session. There are a few matters I would like to raise in private. I’ve covered all I need to cover in open session. These matters deal with the names of relatives. I’ve essentially concluded my cross-examination. It won’t be long.
Pros: We have no objection to that.
Judge Doherty: Would a private session where the sound is cut off allay the concerns you have?
Def: My concern is that the transcripts be shielded from the public domain. If that’s the case, then a private session would be fine.
Judge Doherty: If we do this in private session, is the transcript publicly available?
Court officer: That part of the transcript is treated confidentially.
Judge Doherty: A private session will then serve the security concerns. For those in the public gallery, there will be no audio. You will be able to see but not hear.
10:41 (11:11) Court goes into private session.